My McQueen, My Melancholic

‘There has to be a sinister aspect, whether it’s melancholy or sadomasochist. I think everyone has a deep sexuality, and sometimes it’s good to use a little of it—and sometimes a lot of it—like a masquerade.’

These well-known words from Alexander McQueen became an appellation guiding Byronesque and Fecal Matter. Three minds became one for an editorial installation celebrating selected Alexander McQueen works from Highland Rape to What a Merry Go Round. What Byronesque editor-in-chief Gill Linton accomplished in tandem with fashion and music polymaths Hannah Rose Dalton and Steven Raj Bhaskaran commemorates, connects and colludes with the iconoclastic codes of McQueen. Their editorial project is not a costume party. Dalton walks with ghost girls from Alexander McQueen's storied past. As Dalton shivered among stone cold gravel, her nude body dusted in eggshell white paint, you wonder if her mind's eye blinks back to Ai Tominaga staggering into the wind during her Scanners finale for McQueen. Or did Dalton think of Karen Elson, who sat out an entire show season to train exclusively for McQueen's dance-til-you-die Deliverance experience. A simple shiver in the dark is pivotal to imbibe legendary moments that Dalton (and Bhaskaran, and Linton) hold dearly. Fecal Matter grew up being inspired by Alexander McQueen’s powerful works filled with grotesque, beautiful and woefully underrepresented human aspects. Their goal was to pay homage to Alexander McQueen yet remove the clothes — styled by Byronesque — from the numbing world of easy-bake archive hype. Perhaps that is how filming everything in a cave beneath a Parisian apartment building came to be. What follows is a conversation between Linton and Matière Fécale about their project making Alexander McQueen fantasies from back then, electrify our tomorrows. As the man himself said, 'You've got to know the rules to break them.'

M-C Hill: Let's start from the derelict room. That Byronesque concept of future-minded vintage grounding historical context to translate modernity and beyond. Then that intrinsic Fecal Matter, ‘F*ck You’ viewpoint on conventionality. How did these forces all come together?

Gill Linton: Well, we work with a lot of Alexander McQueen collectors. This started to come together when the new creative direction from McQueen was happening. We were very lucky. We had quite important things like Highland Rape boots, a Dante mask…all the things from the early days, which frankly are more interesting to me. It seemed a very Byronesque thing to do, to be in the background flipping the bird. The idea was to do something quite dark and melancholic. More in keeping with what McQueen used to be like as I remembered and loved it most.

Hannah, Steven and I had been talking about doing something together. I had a hunch they might say yes because I know their affinity towards the early days of Lee McQueen. When I shared the idea of this dark, dingy cave in the centre of Paris, it was perfectly fitting for the quote that inspired everything that we then did together. That something has to have a sinister aspect. Like a masquerade, but with sexuality. The two of them, Steven behind the camera and Hannah in front, it all fit perfectly.

M-C.H: Steven and Hannah, I was thinking about McQueen and his clothes that Byronesque suggested for the editorial. An idea of war as a specific theme. Not a strategic military execution, just an idea of war to guide our conversation today. What you both do approaches war on elements of dull personalities. Let's think about that theme as you answer why this made sense to do, then how you approached it.

Hannah Rose Dalton: Fashion is always a place to say something. McQueen did that in every show. It was always talking about something. For us that is important. Especially with this shoot, to speak our perspective of how McQueen feels to us. We're always at war with the norms of society and conventionality. This is how we look every day. We always have that combative approach to our everyday life. I guess that shows in the photos, too.

Steven Raj Bhaskaran: Especially with Gill, who for us has a really strong point of view. That's the main reason we wanted to work on the project. We knew that we would have strength within this project. If we're talking about our values and what we go through, you can't look like this and not have strength. Every day we struggle to exist. We struggle to be seen, to be heard. I think within fashion, there isn't a large space for people like us to have the freedom to be ourselves. Gill was offering that. McQueen’s clothes and the story behind it was something that aligned with our values. Our approach was trying to embody McQueen, but also embody how McQueen makes us feel empowered. Hannah, you collect McQueen.

HRD: I wish I had enough money to buy some of Gill’s pieces. But yes, I have some McQueen pieces. Anytime I'm in McQueen, it's a feeling of strength. You're able to go through the day and feel protected like armor. It's comforting, but also takes you outside of your comfort zone. Some pieces that we wore for the shoot, it's even confronting for me.

SRB: When we discovered fashion, it was in 2007. Those were the later years of McQueen. I would watch Fashion Television with Jeanie Becker. I first saw McQueen as an artist, the first artist that resonated how I felt on the inside. I'm half-Guyanese and Sri Lankan, I was in my Mom's apartment with cockroaches in this completely different world.

M-C.H: But also appropriate.

SRB: Totally! Totally! His work spoke to me. Hannah, I think you were the same…

HRD: I was in private school, the uniform, all these things. It was completely different, but equally where you're just in a box and you have no sense of freedom. Me too, Fashion Television, watching those shows, I was like ‘How is that even possible?’ It opens your mind to a new perspective of beauty, life, seeing darkness in a new way.

SRB: Only later, when we actually had knowledge and resources to dive deeper, that's when we discovered the early years. There was so much rage inside of him. And so much beauty. That combination was exactly how we felt on the inside. I think seeing his soul translate through those pieces. That wasn't made by a ‘brand,’ that was made by a designer. He was a designer and an artist.

GL: I think there is a parallel between what you're trying to achieve culturally, why you exist in the world and what he was trying to do. The whole thing was about shaking up a societal system. Those who were less-informed or less curious, would often take some of his shows at face value, not really understanding the narrative behind them and what he was actually expressing. It's curious because if everybody did understand, would they be quite as provocative? I don't know.

SRB: I think there was an intellectuality in what he did. Whether he was talking about subjects like rape or sexuality, he was always dissecting, always with this mindset of thinking critically. That was something from the get-go with us, our biggest mantra when we first started was provoke society. The concept people thought was, ‘Oh just go get attention outside to make society angry.’ For us, the meaning actually stems from us wanting society to think critically.

Our presence on the street in our identities hopefully enables people to step out of that mind fog and think critically. Why am I wearing leggings? Why am I going to H&M to consume another fast fashion piece?’

GL: That's something else we've got in common. We just come at it from different angles.

M-C.H: It comes off as adversarial, but it's really not. Your conventional understanding of how the world turns doesn't really spin when you encounter the world of a Byronesque or a Fecal Matter. Like Highland Rape, the confrontation is something you may be experiencing internally, because it's unfamiliar. There is a discomfort, and maybe a fear, a fear of inadequacy.

GL: His shows were based on historical facts. Highland Rape wasn't about women being raped. It was about the rape of Scotland, and England trying to take over Scotland. From that, his brilliant imagination took us into this world of torn clothes that weren't really torn, but beautifully crafted. That's what I really miss about fashion. I've seen some of the pieces that were never produced for retail. They're fragile, but stunningly beautiful. When you contrast that with the narrative which inspired those clothes and that tension, I think that's what Hannah and Steven bring. That tension between provoking but loving beautiful things. I guess it's romanticism, and an appreciation for craft.

M-C.H: Hannah, talk about the look of the space. Then talk about seeing the clothes. What were some of the sense and emotional impressions?

HRD: It was definitely the mask.

SRB: Time stopped.

We're all standing around, cold. There was no heating. Then when Gill very poetically removes the paper from the mask, it felt like we were in the most luxurious museum of fashion history. Analysing the mask, seeing the simplicity of the construction made us understand that so much of McQueen's work, especially the early years, wasn't about the material. It was really about the spirit and the soul.

It made us love the space even more because there was a charm that was starting to happen. Because it was so cold, so raw and so confrontational, the space actually brought out something inside of us to dig deeper than if we had been in a comfortable fashion studio.

GL: I'm just realising that there's a similarity to the space, what we were doing and actually what they were doing for the Dante show. I've spoken to Simon Costin, who made the masks, and years ago we interviewed Rose Ferguson, who walked the show. They both tell the same story. This Spitalfields church was falling down. They were literally having to put wood on the floor because it was derelict. They wouldn't be able to do that now because of health and safety. They said it was chaotic. No one really knew what they were doing, but they were all there with the same spirit, the same reason, and they just made it happen. Probably that is why it seemed so magical. That's one that would have been quite good to be transported back to.

SRB: Especially since we're in Paris, there’s this complete contradiction to what we saw when we stepped out of the cave. At the same time, that space reminded us of where we started. When we started 10 years ago, squatting in New York and living in really uncomfortable spaces, it was also where the raw energy came from. There was a raw energy in there that was needed for it to work.

M-C.H: How did you and Gill meet?

SRB: We met at a Rick Owens dinner. Before that, we knew about Byronesque.

HRD: I actually inquired about a pair of ‘bumster’ jeans.

SRB: I remember we were super excited about it. Also our mutual friend, Michèle Lamy, always spoke about Gill.

M-C.H: As friends then, how did you move forward with a pseudo-uncomfortable story?

SRB: It started when Gill showed us the clothes. That's where our brains started to think about things and I sketched out some quick ideas.

HRD: Every picture you see on our Instagram is always Steven drawing it exactly as he sees something in his mind. Then we just replicate that drawing.

SRB: In the moment we try to leave room to play. It's fun to experiment. The idea with roses was something we were visually interested in. This project was a passion project. So we thought to come up with things that are inexpensive, but also matter within the McQueen world. I think we knew a relationship between Hannah and the clothes was enough with the space. We did the makeup on the fly. We just did one eye, and then we built off that in the moment.

GL: Very meticulously working around the mask.

HRD: Oh my God. We did the mask last to protect it. We removed all the makeup that is under the mask and under the string going around the back of the head. To even put the mask on, we covered my whole face with tissue.

GL: It was like somebody was going to drop a hand grenade.

HRD: We were so scared. Even taking the mask off, not one scratch. It was a big priority to take care of the pieces. Same as when I inquired about the bumsters and didn't want to tailor them because to me, it's fashion history. I see it as even more than that.

M-C.H: How did you strike a balance between what you do and what those pieces symbolise to wear? Where you want to pay respect, but also redefine it visually for a different generation.

HRD: I guess it came very naturally. In some of the photos, I'm naked with just the shoes.

Recontextualising something that's super McQueen, but making it super modern.

SRB: Our visual language is really in homage to McQueen's work anyways. The eye makeup from Joan, the baldness, the affinity with distorting the human body. All of that is what McQueen pioneered in those time frames. How we see it is an opportunity to carry the torch and push it further within our time.

GL: The Byronesque mantra is fashion history like you're seeing for the first time. We're not here to regurgitate what you can Google. The intention was to give it a new visual direction. Hannah and Steven did that.

SRB: Specifically in fashion archiving, it duplicates the same imagery, the same. Or it's diluting moments. Taking these historical fashion moments and slapping it with a Coachella-like moment. It was amazing to have the opportunity to share our perspective with McQueen. He has a beloved history. He's a beloved designer. You have to be very careful how you articulate that.

M-C.H: Is he your favorite? Or is he just your most pivotal?

SRB: He's our favorite! The other designer we love the most is Rick Owens.

M-C.H: Because we've clearly got some Larry, some Performa shoulder situations here on Hannah.

SRB: Rick has been amazing. We look up to him. He's a friend. He's also helped us a lot in terms of how to navigate steps. But we've even told him McQueen is our fave. I think the main reason why we love McQueen is the storytelling.

GL: It gives everything a different meaning. If you've got something else to talk about rather than just a logo somebody can recognize on a bag or a shoe, that's more interesting. He was always one of the designers of that era who used clothes as the vehicle for his point of view. Maybe he could have also been an artist. He just happened to also be a brilliant fashion designer and craftsman.

M-C.H: Let's get into the editorial. Since the mask is the pivotal emotional moment, let's talk about the mask again.

HRD: You become somebody else. It gives you power. The tongue out in the specific photo is in homage, in honour of Debra Shaw, when she wore it on the runway, she spat her tongue out, which felt impromptu.

GL: Lee and Simon didn't have the first idea to do it. It was based on a Joel Peter Witkin mask. Simon used to bring things to Lee for inspiration. He took Joel Peter's work one day. And verbatim, Lee would say to Simon, ‘Go and knock us up some of those for the show, Simon!’ And literally, they would go and try to figure out how to make them. As Simon always says, now you can just go online and find those things. They had to find them in junk shops. I asked Simon, if he ever thought they would be so revered? At the end of the day, it was literally an accessory to the collection. It wasn't produced, so not even a real accessory. It just became an iconic symbol of what the Dante show was all about.

M-C.H: Which was war and religion, really.

SRB: I think what we love also is the play on religion. I grew up Roman [Catholic]. You Hannah, Christian. Even our own work often plays with religion. I think that's where there was this deep connection to the mask. Also making sure there was the alien beauty behind that. I think that takes it to a different place.

M-C.H: The provocative sides of Fecal Matter meeting rage from justifications of war inside religious iconography and monotheistic idealism…the McQueen side. A real unification of what you both do here with this piece.

SRB: Totally.

M-C.H: Let's move on to Golden Shower.

HRD: When you put on a McQueen jacket, it's unlike anything. We spent a good time looking at the shoulders this jacket had because it's crafted immaculately. You cannot find jackets like this on the market anymore. It just doesn't exist. You put it on, it was only made for you.

GL: The other thing about early McQueen, that we hear quite a lot, is on the hanger, you could say that's just a lemon-coloured, double-breasted leather coat. Very simple. Whereas he presented them as otherworldly. As Hannah said, when it's on the body, it's transformative. We can't describe it, or we don't need to, because you can just see how it looks. Look at Hannah in that coat. Isn't that a testimony to his work?

M-C.H: That's what he was known for, right? Creating on the stand, building on the body. Also with Hannah and Steven knowing a Rick Owens quality is creating on the stand too, building on the body. Rick sculpts like Lee did. You will get that clothes’ sense of perfection. People always think about the special effects and the ‘golden shower’ at the end. It really is about the anatomical perfection of his clothes, right? That Shaun Leane steel spinal corset in the show defined the construction of this coat — that Lee McQueen was a garment constructivist. He learned from Romeo Gigli, he learned from Gieves & Hawkes. You get all that virtuosity in this coat.

GL: I think that's why this is one of the shows people don't really look at quite so much. Highland Rape, Joan, Voss, became more popular. But Golden Shower, from a collection perspective, was probably the first sign where he was going to go creatively, in terms of elevating the designs. I think that was a pivotal turning point for what then became the future of what he was doing.

M-C.H: There's an apparent fusion of Fecal Matter and McQueen sensibilities when you think of the beauty on the runways, right? The painted faces, shaved heads, red pupils, the mutation to your greater self, which may be a bit freaky for people, but it's your natural form. You can find the middle ground in what you do and what McQueen did quite easily.

HRD: 100%

M-C.H: Let's move on to Joan

GL: I think this is another example of a quite simple ensemble. And the corset, you tell me Hannah because you were wearing it, you weren't going to fall out of it.

HRD: You could wear it with a pair of jeans. It's still super timeless. If we took other designers' work, it probably wouldn't have that effect.

GL: I think the thing about Joan and why something seemingly simple takes on another life is because it was about the historical persecution of somebody in society. He took on murder. And you can see it, you can feel that. You can see this storyline or tone of voice come through. I think when you know about that and you look at a garment, it takes on a completely different feeling. That's how I appreciate clothes anyway.

M-C.H: Steven, you were sketching the roses as removing the moodboard from your mind. Where did the roses come from?

SRB: The symbolism of McQueen that became so important in the later years was the skull. This affection for the inner layer of the human body. I'm always obsessed with roses when they're dying. I think the rose is a symbolism of the cycle of life, which also ties into why we're called Fecal Matter. Fecal Matter is a big part of the human cycle and waste cycle in fashion. We were just obsessed with roses, wanted to add texture and also balance to the dystopian look of the cave.

HRD: A rose itself is very dynamic, but then you have the stem with the thorns. Going back to the quote that Gill was talking about, where you have this beauty, but also harshness and sexiness, and also conservatism. I find a rose can represent a lot of those juxtaposing ideologies. That's why we always use it, and I think maybe McQueen, too.

GL: It has a fragility, but says, ‘Don't f*ck with me’ at the same time.

HRD: All in one object.

M-C.H: Let's move away from Joan into What A Merry-Go-Round.

SRB: This is where the masterful aspect of how he makes garments comes to play. The tailoring is spot on. But then to twist it, where it wraps right on the back. It wraps around the body. There's so much engineering to make everything stay in the same place. To be honest, that was one of the pieces where we said, ‘Oh, that looks good.’

GL: Again, it's one of those examples of ‘on the hanger.’ It just felt like a heavy sack. When it's on, you can see it's very powerful-looking.

HRD: This color is unexpected. It balances the harshness of the jacket with this olive color.

GL: I don't know a lot about What A Merry Go Round was for him. I know there were a lot of clowns, that scary clown makeup, which again is quite a contrast with something so tailored.

M-C.H: This show happened around the time he got financial backing from what was called the Gucci Group before Kering. There's also commentary on fashion being this horrific whirling dervish, so to speak. One thing we were saying about Golden Shower was it had his virtuoso tailoring. Then you get this big budget manifestation of that when the Gucci Group came around. That can increase the access to resources of production, but the linchpin remains pins, scissors and a tailoring stand. This colour is of a different time, it feels very early 00’s, this shade of olive. You would probably see this in a Stella McCartney Gucci Group show, maybe. I don't know. I just see a visual differentiation between his 90s stuff and his 00s stuff. Also, you look hella regal in this, Hannah. You really do.

HRD: There's something different about it. I don't even look like myself. I look like something else in these pictures in a way, which is so magical, just from the clothing.

M-C.H: How did you feel in it?

HRD: This specific jacket wasn't my size. It was a bit bigger. That's also why we were tentative to use it. Somehow it fit perfectly. Strong but comfortable. I wear kooky, crazy stuff. But comfort, to me, is very important. I don't want to feel trapped or conformed. Always with McQueen, it gives the look of strict and harsh. As the wearer, though, it's very comfortable.

M-C.H: You wore that wooden heel from Number 13, which is the shoe reflecting the catwalk. Also, that concept of war coming back in — man versus machine, on nature and technology. What do we think about Number 13? What do we think about you in the shoe? How did this image come to be? Three distinct questions. Go off.

HRD: We just watched that show recently. So beautiful.

SRB: So relevant to today's world.

GL: So copied.

SRB: Especially with AI and everything happening, it's actually foreshadowing how much control technology has on all of us. But then he used the wood and natural colors…

HRD: Steven, I think you read that he spent a million dollars on that robot situation. One million dollars for a robot you don't really need. You could do a regular catwalk, but he took that initiative to do that big investment. How powerful it is still to this day. I'd love to be a fly on the wall, him in those meetings, trying to push for that type of budget for a 30-second situation.

SRB: The shoe itself, we hate ankle length.

HRD: This shoe pushed me to see things in a new way. I would simply see a beautiful shoe, but never buy it for myself. And putting it on, it cuts the body in an interesting and unexpected way. See how it's below that bone? Somehow it makes you look taller. Usually shoes like this would make me look short and stocky.

M-C.H: So again, Number 13’s nature and technology, right? The construction of a wooden shoe mutating your calf when a basic ankle boot would cut you off.

HRD: Yeah! Because if this was any higher, I would look way too short and it would just not look good. It's a science project on how the shoe dissects the body.

M-C.H: What’s that little patch on your upper left leg, on the buttock?

GL: So McQueen used to put his own hair labels inside. The tale is that he was inspired by how Victorian prostitutes used to sell their hair. I guess when you join the dots of all his provocation and perspective on the fashion industry, he probably felt like a prostitute. I don't mean that, literally. I mean, in terms of the system he was trying to change and improve.

SRB: For Hannah and I, it's never felt like work. We're also in a relationship. Everything we do blurs between friendship, relationship, creative partnership. What we do is speak in our own language. I also try to make you feel as good as you can in those situations. That's one of our go-to poses we love.

HRD: This pose always highlights a shoe very well.

SRB: It's a Fecal Matter go-to.

HRD: I'm not overly sexual in any way. But then I find for some reason, through photography, I always end up naked. The body, just from an outside perspective is a dynamic shape to use. Somehow it's a naked body, but it's not sexual.

M-C.H: The thing you appreciate with Rick Owens is sexlessness in the image presentation. Nudity is there, but it's not on exhibition like, ‘Haha! Here's a d*ck!’

SRB: There's a real fragility and vulnerability in the expression of Hannah's face, but balanced with strength and something posthuman.

HRD: I never want to come off as not empowered. Like I'm in danger. I feel like McQueen struggled with that balance also, just on the perspective of people viewing the collections or the clothes.

M-C.H: With Highland Rape

HRD: Exactly! In my personal journey, I struggle with how people perceive the naked form. But I don't really care at the same time since I know the intention.

M-C.H: It's probably unintentional, but your approach is a riposte to social media foolishness, GRWM reels. As every teenager goes naked on social media now, I feel the need for some austerity. You just don't want to see it anymore. Give me a slight implication. Where's the eroticism? Where's the innuendo? And there's none of that, right? It's useless. Do it in a David LaChapelle way or don't do it at all. This image is a nice strike down of that nonsense. It builds up the power of Fecal Matter with the power of McQueen. Plus, you've got that Highland eye happening.

Okay, here we go. It's A Jungle Out There.

GL: I think this might be my favorite.

HRD: So glam. I do that makeup every day. It's special because we all work in this industry. It's a f*cking shit show. We're all hyenas and lions going at each other. I feel very at home wearing that collection.

SRB: The piece itself. The shoulder, what he did with the zipper going through the whole jacket was amazing. The fabric and also the printed image were in great condition. It looked so pure, so beautiful. I think it's a clear representation of Alexander McQueen also, what they offer with history and tailoring.

GL: This coat was featured in the Heavenly Bodies exhibition at the Met (2018). So there's a religious connotation. Which is why Hannah carrying the cross is such a nice touch.

HRD: We always try to bring in religious iconography.

SRB: Which goes back to what you were talking about M-C, using war as symbolism. The time we're in right now is Thatcherism, all of these difficult, conservative points of view would love for Hannah and I, people like ourselves, to not exist. That's really the POV from our perspective, at least what we go through. Taking those symbols, distorting them, but also showing the beauty of them…

HRD: Same what McQueen is doing in the coat.

M-C.H: His codes are your codes in this collection. The animalistic protrusions are things you did five years ago. So there's a magical appreciation in the influence. No wonder you love him.

HRD: I always say McQueen was my teacher. I watched it and grew up with it so much that it's a part of my veins.

M-C.H: Where were you when you watched Plato's Atlantis, either for the first time or when it livestreamed?

SRB: I did watch it on SHOWstudio. I was on my laptop. Not my laptop, my desktop computer. It was an IBM. We had a family computer. I think my sister wanted to use it. I was begging her to watch this. That was life-changing. Seeing his ability to go beyond clothing and textile into questioning the future of humanity, the future of the human body and the future of the world. It was also a huge influence in our personal work with the skin boots, the way we look, the way we see fashion and humanity.

Seeing the photos Nick Knight did with the snakes…

HRD: It was so c*nt!

SRB: Hannah what about for you?

HRD: I watched it through Fashion Television in Canada. My mind couldn't process it. On FT, you saw Versace shows, all these other shows. It blew everything out of the water. Gill, you were going to shows. Imagine the fashion community at that time. You go to that show and you're just like, girl…

GL: When it was streaming, I don't know if you've ever had this feeling. Where you watch something and at the end of it, you go, ‘God, I'm such a failure. I'm never going to do anything like that.’

M-C.H: That was his power. I thought at one point to try fashion design. Then decided ‘Well, no you can’t because there's Alexander McQueen so don't embarrass yourself.’ He could redact your dreams because he made dreams.

GL: The thing in fashion that I miss, and probably one of the reasons why I stay in the past of contemporary fashion history, is everyone's just making clothes. And when they say what their inspiration is it's never really about anything.

SRB: The values of people in fashion today are so different from the values of that time. An emphasis on tailoring that he's well known for, I don't think a lot of people are looking for that in young designers. A masterful element. What people are looking for is something that they can connect with a different set of values than before.

M-C.H: Is this why the Margiela Artisanal collection last January had such resonance with people?

SRB: Totally. That was another setting the bar moment, which made people feel like ‘What's the point?’ again. It wasn't so Margiela in the sense of actual codes. But it told a story. There's a question for us of how we can add storytelling. Seeing the Galliano Margiela show was a clear, definitive showcase that there is still space for that. I don't know how that translates on a commercial level, but there is an appetite for it.

That's why we wanted to tell a story through the shoot versus presenting it in a relatable, easy way. We wanted to do world building. If you presented these same photos in 2016, maybe it feels démodé because of Balenciaga, Vetements and normcore. We're entering into a new time frame where people are excited to be immersed into a world. Imagination, the biggest luxury, is coming back.

GL: I think you might have timed it right.

M-C.H: About the value of McQueen's old clothes in this era — one thing you and Hannah bang the drum for, which I love, is the emotional economy within clothes. What do you think about the current climate of buying something to flip? Buying to sell basically, an investment item for monetary value versus for aesthetic, emotional value. What do you think about that approach?

HRD: Guess I never really thought about it. If I'm investing in something, it has to move me. It's never about, ‘Oh, it's going to sell!’ Although the more I think about it, sometimes I am like, ‘This is my retirement.’ If shit hits the fan, I got to bring out those Horn of Plenty boots.

GL: I've got clients that have bought houses on the collections we sold for them. You are not wrong.

HRD: It always comes from a real deep love. But maybe Gill, you know more about people that do it professionally.

GL: We're very against flip culture. While that's what the market has become, people confuse resale with contemporary vintage. I'm pleased about that because then our people will find us. We always say ‘We're not for beginners. We're here for you when you're ready.’ Fecal Matter people find you. Byronesque people find us.

SRB: There are different layers to it. How we make our money and survive in this world is true. Our art is true. We're still emerging in a lot of ways. We're hustling, bustling, doing the best we can. When we make big purchases, we talk about it, we think about it. And then we feel guilty after. There's a dialogue as a consumer. The things that really mean a lot to us, we will never sell.

HRD: I think what Gill and M-C are talking about is when people buy stuff with the purpose of reselling it. That's so different because we always buy to keep.

SRB: Yeah but for example, there's some of my Balenciaga stuff. I knew when buying it, I was like…

HRD: Oh, really?

SRB: Yeah. I probably will wear this and won't care about it anymore.

HRD: Oh girl. Well, if you told me that…

SRB: The KISS boots will be hard to let go of because they mean something to me. People are consuming so much right now. During the two years we were not really designing, it was playing the game of visibility. We played because that's our job. A random girl in LA who is going to clubs doesn't really have a following, but she plays that same game. Social media makes everybody feel like they have a curation to put out. People are consuming with the intention of showing off.

M-C.H: What does us doing a project like this say about the era we're in and where we go?

HRD: We've lost values from the past in 2024. The emotion, storytelling, the balls to the wall, we've lost that in fashion. People can look at this shoot to see in this time frame, we are going back to honor values that we've lost.

SRB: There's an education in those clothes that help you understand yourself. Who knows how this shoot will translate to people. I hope that it helps people dream again, which feels a bit lost in fashion.

M-C.H: Gill, does dealing with vintage in a future-minded way help creativity and taste levels? Or does it obscure what is happening in fashion in 2024?

GL: Obviously, Lee McQueen was a household name as are many of the brands and designers that we celebrate. But we do exist to elevate our heroes. I think that we're not alone in wanting something more creative. And more bravery, like Hannah and Steven, to show that something else does exist other than the banal world of fashion. Without pop culture, there's no subculture. The market is bifurcating, and that can be a good thing. Future-proofing the world of contemporary vintage, whether it's Hannah and Steven's new collection or making sure that items like these McQueen pieces in the shoot are still around in the future. We've got more chances of people being inspired by meaningful creativity, which affects everything in society, not just fashion. My hope is that's what will happen. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing this.

SRB: This project is a testament to Lee McQueen's power and his legacy. For that to exist in the past, present and future is really important. The goal with this project was to try to embody his point of view as a designer. That was something I think is important next to the landscape of what's happening with the brand. There was a real person on our end, a personal affection for Lee McQueen, the man.