And I'll answer your question about shit-stirring another time, if that's OK (I don't think he is one really. But I might be...)

Sure it's ok. I'm genuinely interested.

''(I don't think he is one really. But I might be...)''

lol

OK, shit stirring. In a previous posting I forwarded the word “challenging” as a polite alternative but, after giving it some thought today, I now think “taxing” might be more appropriate… This debate has been pretty tiring! It’s definitely been worthwhile because I’m much closer now than I’ve ever been to being able to appreciate the appeal of Teller’s work. But from appreciation to liking there’s still a big difference. De gustibus non disputandem est? I may get there eventually, but I’m not going to hold my breath…

The whole shit-stirring thing has its origin in something martinb wrote earlier, in far more guarded terms (to his credit, wish I had such restraint), about respecting the impact Teller’s work has had on fashion photography, the resultant adjustments that have occurred in terms of what has become acceptable for publication in the fashion press, a shaking up of established “norms”. I agree with him about this, but at the same time I’ve been wondering if the boundaries that have been pushed are of any real significance. I also doubt that Teller is directly responsible for the impact his work has had, if only because in interview he seems so vague. I mean, it can seem as if he’s allowed himself to be carried, rather than personally being the deliberate instigator of the furore his work has sometimes caused. I suppose, in the light of the kind of anti-style he’s helped initiate, it makes sense that he should seem so… absent? But it’s kind of frustrating all the same. I’ve been trying to follow his career since I first became aware of it, but my attention to it has been patchy (I do have a life of sorts) so I may have missed things of import. Perhaps this helps explain the overall impression I have is that he’s been pushed forward by others, fairly passively. He says himself that he dislikes being pigeonholed (my word) – he doesn’t consider himself an artist or even a fashion photographer. This can smack of borderline false modesty...

But then, it’s difficult to criticise someone who abdicates responsibility.

It’s not impossible though. Thus this whole debate! And others elsewhere?

There is an interesting crossover possible between this posting and the one about Terry Richardson – for me, at least. Whatever else I may think of him, Richardson has an aesthetic I can easily relate to, where Teller doesn’t. I mean, Richardson’s talent is more obvious, more instantly, accessibly apparent, where Tellers isn’t somehow.

But I still don’t feel I’ve explained shit stirring. Making a big fuss about nothing. Or, disturbing the status quo. Can mean either – take your pick.

I actually quite like Tller's work, he seems to have a more true to life approach in what he does. I don't like everything he does, but it's interesting every time. Maybe it's not as pretentious? Maybe what makes him so famous is that he can get so many contradicting reactions from people? One question, can you picture Marc Jacobs using any other photographer for his ad campaigns? I think his approach is just right for Hacobs. Anyone familiar with Nathabal Goldberg's work? He does really gorgeous but simple work.

I see a fashion editorial by Nathaniel Goldberg for a issue of I-D, nice pictures very preetty and simple, the pictures were shot in Paris, a girl and a boy in love.

f:lux, I personally have no idea what you mean by shit-stirring. It's remarkably obscure. Haha, but I'm adamant you know what you're talking about, you're hardly inarticulate but perhaps shit-stirring for you is more abstract than you may have thought! Does it really matter if these boundaries carry any great significance? Perhaps you're right. Perhaps he isn't thinking anything. He seems rather straight forward and pragmatic. I don't think he's bothered by too much - I don't think he needs to be.

Hi J,

well, if there's such a thing as reincarnation I'd like to file my request right now to come back as a tree. In the meantime I'm here and I'm human, and unless I'm in a coma I'm out in the world, or talking with you about Teller here, and generally interacting with other human beings, plus my cat etc. Being so very zen about everything would be great, but then... name an important buddhist artist? I can't think of one offhand.

Other possibility. Teller is quite clever - knows better than to talk too much because what artists say can be a real turn off a lot of the time,and is enjoying the ride while it lasts?

But wilful ignorance is unpardonable.

And the opposite of significant is?

Hi f:lux,

Ah, but what kind of tree?

Would you consider yourself to be an optimist?

I might favour birch if it weren't banned.

But I am an uncurable optimist, so I like to think I'd be a chene verte in the Cevennes.