In reply to headmistress:

Quite so. Galileo's Universe, I'm guessing that like me, the only time you wear a headscarf is to keep your rollers in overnight.

In reply to Sandrine:

silkreveries.blogspot.com/ 2007/05/kelly-heads...

..... or in the case of someone wanting to become ... INCOGNITO .... I suppose...

In reply to headmistress:

I like that sentence .........' I wore a headscarf for quite a long time myself ..." 'wore ' ... to me here is the clue ....... ' wore ' .... the rest is just semantics...... and the arguments in favour of ' beautification ' are , in my very personal opinion, just make up of .......... wishful thinking !

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

haha, I knew you'd latch onto the 'wore'! However to explain why I said 'wore' not 'wear' is beyond the scope of this site - suffice to say, my reasons for no longer wearing it are not the usual (whatever the usual may be)... in fact, it's the increasingly political status it's being imbued with, by many of its wearers, the media, and outside observers, that led to me being a little put off with it... meaning can only be created within a society, and society had stripped it of its spiritual worth. It should be a very personal gesture IMHO, but it has often, in the current climate, been reduced to a gilded symbol. But I have nothing against it, and if I feel inclined, which sometimes I do, I may go back to it.

what do you mean when you say the arguments for 'beautification' are wishful thinking?

In reply to headmistress:

Quote : " However to explain why I said 'wore' not 'wear' is beyond the scope of this site.."

You would be surprised how intelligent people can be in this site !... so please don't under estimate people's ability to think, to reason and to think without dogmas .... and when I say to think I mean ... FREE THINKING and unbound by codes of conduct as imposed by manipulative dogmas in the matters of subjugating God's given free spirit and will of the mind and the soul !

And for the rest of your ' reasoning ' on the past tense ' wore'....I wonder why TURKEY has indeed a HUGE problem on the subject , perhaps you can make an effort to understand why some in this part of the fence do have a problem in its symbolism, but then again we all like to be UNDERSTOOD blindly ... but understanding others doesn't seem so interesting and fair as long as we can get our way even if that means to become intrusive were discretion should take place ... after all it isn't all that 'innocent ' as you would want us to believe ....

In reply to headmistress:

Quote : ' I cannot understand why people want to make such a huge deal out of it! ' ....

Yes !!! neither can I !!! .... specially when in the case of a society such as TURKEY were it shouldn't be for the very obvious reasons ! ... so can you or are you perhaps willing to understand why people who does not belong in that ' planet ' and have absolutely no binding with such 'thinking' do tend to have a problem with it ?.... and then I would add... if just for the very obvious reasons in the matters of ' man and woman' as equals .....

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

I had a huuge response to all this, but of course computers crash at the most inopportune times. But briefly -
I never meant to insult anyone's intelligence - but my reasons are highly personal and complex - I don't want to defend myself with some generalised incomplete summary, and I don't know if it's even appropriate within a site that is generally about art and fashion.

But your statement, "... so please don't under estimate people's ability to think, to reason and to think without dogmas .... and when I say to think I mean ... FREE THINKING and unbound by codes of conduct as imposed by manipulative dogmas..." is considerably offensive, implying that I am incapable of free thought, that I'm simply padding blindly on like some maimed puppy because of the codes I choose to live my personal life by, without any consideration or understanding of the complexities of this issue, and the many, many facets to it.

The scarf has been severely hijacked as a political symbol, by both sides of the debate, and there are a lot more aspects to the issue than the ones raised by those who demonise it, or champion it. Also you have to understand that the scarf is not some fixed constant throughout the multiplicities of muslim identities - you are making crass generalisations by suggesting that I am of one 'planet' that fails to understand those outside it. There are concerns with it being used as a tool of repression, of compulsion and subordination - these issues are valid and true, but it can't be reduced to an extreme synecdoche - there is more at stake than that.

In reply to headmistress:

QUOTE: ' is considerably offensive, implying that I am incapable of free thought, that I'm simply padding blindly on like some maimed puppy because of the codes I choose to live my personal life by, without any consideration or understanding of the complexities of this issue, and the many, many facets to it. '

Please it shouldn't be 'offensive' because ' if it isn't true' what I think, may think or believe on the matter it shouldn't cut any wood ... in any case I am basing my very personal observation on my very personal experiences with people who claim to ...... 'do it out their 'freewill' ' ..... After all feeling " offended' by an opinion or a thought is no reason at all to go at each other's throat, so to speak :):) .... so I hope you will be tolerant and will try to understand any observations that you may consider faulty... just help to put it right and you may just win the argument ....

You must be indeed an exceptional case to advocate so positively and forcefully on the matter, I do admire that ! and of course I would really love to believe that the code of conduct isn't as intrusive in a person's freewill , and her freedom of choice, the female entity that is . But now that you have opened the door if just ... a bit... I'm really curious what are your thoughts about that code of conduct placing the woman , and I'm talking a fact, one step behind the man ... figuratively and physically if you know what I mean... can you really understand and live with that today ?... however insignificant that ' step ' may be to you personally and as a woman living in our part of the world ... and do take that into account .... if you can . Needles to say that when the scarf is on that code must be observed strictly because that is when you no longer are invisible to those whose code is sacred ... as I have witnessed it personally......

QUOTE: 'The scarf has been severely hijacked as a political symbol,' it is true but on the other hand that is just one aspect that deserves discussion ... but what motivates me is not necessarily that aspect .... what is perplexing to me is why on the XXI'st Century women living in our free and democratic societies ... who are being offered the chance of their life ... a chance so many women fought for with blood and tears to get it right .. would want or even wish to go back to the past ? and I'm not talking only about RITUALS and religious codes .... and while we are at this I would like to read about what I referred to on this matter related to TURKEY ... you know I do inform myself so don't be afraid to deliberate... if one thing it can only get better ! ... I would like to read your thoughts...

QUOTE :There are concerns with it being used as a tool of repression, of compulsion and subordination - these issues are valid and true" .... well perhaps you can understand now what I mean by ' another planet '.....to me personally is just another planet and a bizarre dimension ... because all of that in our side of the fence is actually ancient history .... so to speak ... and I'm sure there is absolutely no one who would ever shed tears knowing that that bizarre chapter in the history of how humans treat each other ..... is forever banished to the absolute past !... let's hope anyway or perhaps let's 'dream' that it is so ........

Yes indeed this is a site about ART and FASHION ... and thanks God that there is a section about FREE SPEECH ... and that is absolutely wonderful !!! ... we need more of that TODAY and not let obscure ideals hijack the freedom of speech if just because they are against it out of ignorance! .... a very wonderful Democratic and ever so PRECIOUS IDEAL ! ... and if I may say so I am very glad you too have taken the courage and the step to participate .... it is actually the most actual and extremely relevant ' silenced ' subject/issue today ... whether we agree or not ... and it is also in the realm of ' fashion' even if we would like to pretend otherwise .... so welcome indeed and feel free to enlighten us with you thoughts.... that is a positive step!!