In reply to Galileo's Universe:

So how does the thinking inspired by KM differ from that inspired by Vicky Beckham, for instance?

In reply to Karl Fuler:

hahahaha....that is a good one...because I had already anticipated that question...that I had been waiting for some time... , well my answer in the first place would be .... Vicky Who ?...LOL!.

The difference is, I think, her inspiration seems to do more with jealousy a very nasty human quality in us... and as I perceive it perhaps it has to do with the circumstances surrounding her success in life, adding to that all the attributes attached to her 'success', that in a way , however farfetched it might sound, summarizes what I perceive as today 's ' popular culture ' if I may use that term, and not forgetting that her real talent ( because it is a talent after all ! ) lies in being a very artful and clever business lady in the age of the ' business culture'... where absolute money, bling-bling, seems to be the elixir, the tonic of life ... so to speak... and that is very seductive .... to many in our beautiful planet ....:):)

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

I appreciate your attempt to find a difference, or differences, but I don’t believe there are any of much significance. All that you said in your answer could be applied to KM, more or less, although I think what you said about jealously is a bit of an exaggeration.
I believe that V Beckham provides the same service as Kate Moss, albeit, maybe to a less discerning audience i.e. KM, culturally speaking, is a more classy VB, and vice versa.

In reply to Karl Fuler:

Different perceptions, different conclusions and yet..... you do recognise and to certain extent admire, as I sense it , the term.... classy ... but to
attempt to mix both .... is to me just a desperate attempt to have it your way ... :):) that's is ok because after all ..... there is a difference indeed...:):).... as you put it ' 'culturally speaking '.... that element of classy ... thanks for that !... :):) ... and for the service you are talking about , I wouldn't call it 'service '... I would simply call it ' entertainment '.... because it is there for anyone who cares enough about it to be entertained by their everyday actions... :):) just like a kind of theater ... but as in ' soap opera ' that element does indeed unite your definition ....

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

Why do you think I want it ‘my way’? I’m just trying to find explanations - to discover what is really going on in our culture.

What I meant by more ‘classy’ was a more sophisticated approach to appreciation – not to say that the motivations and inspirations are really much different – just a little more sophisticated. As I see it, in all cultural matters there is so much confusing of the notions of glamour and romanticism.

Entertainment is one service, but I believe that Kate & Vicky also provide other services that soothe people’s aspirational folly instincts. Hmm....??? As I say, I’m trying.
Neverless, as I say, the Kate Moss phenomena is the same thing as the Vicky one. The icon of KM is just a slightly more sophisticated version of the icon of Vicky B.

In reply to Karl Fuler:

Pic.. FlacoScan

The reason why I think you want it your way is because along the way ... of the whole thread .... certain questions seem to have been chosen to be ignored ..... questions that can help to make sense of what you are truly aiming at ... It is absolutely ok to be curious but when it seems that the subject is treated ( at least that is the impression I get...) like a fixed target then I find it difficult to give credibility to the motivation behind the discussion ... And no... 'entertainment' is not a service in your context ... it is a press-fabricated - soap opera in my context ... because the public self turns the whole circus into entertainment by their hunger for it ... if the public were not interested, they both would just be carrying on with their lives .... and with no consequence at all ... the public is the 'voluntary audience ' .
The manner in which Paris and Victoria go about their entertainment ' service ' is quite different to how ...... sophisticated Kate Moss goes about it, that is my personal opinion . The former advertise themselves unequivocally in front of the cameras in their full and total glory, very proud and giving the 'evil' paparazzi exactly what they want with a big beautiful smile showing their fabulous whitened impeccable teeth...with the compliments of P&V , the later is mostly and simply advertised before she has a chance to even brush her spinach-ridden-teeth and thrown to the lions of the press by her very ' good, excellent human character, and trustful ' friends '..... if you ask me I think she is far to good of a person to still believe that people want to be her friends because of her as a person and personality .... That , Karl , believe it or not, however terribly insignificant or ridiculous that ' detail ' may seem to many , is one of the clues of why she is not in the same category ... but then again people would believe anything written by the press....

I wouldn't be surprised if the press wrote tomorrow that she is such an evil human being ( ' trash' in your own words ) that she is manufacturing a ' bomb ' using gold powder and diamonds, next to her jacuzzi while sipping champagne and smoking the best Havanas , planning to blow up her visagists , hairdressers , stylist, photographers and the innocent tea lady at her next photo shoot ... let's say ... at VOGUE !!!
Then , yes indeed ! ...I would really be worried about the evilly-glamorous-guerrilla-sophisticated-monster called Kate Moss, whose cause and ideals are aimed to annihilate and wipe out the beauty and fashion business from the face of the earth because such business are totally immoral and bad for the human soul !!!....... In that case , indeed , the subject would be of great consequence to the whole ' global village' s popular culture ' ...

And no, Paris and Vick , sorry to say so ( in my opinion of no importance ) they do not qualify in any way to the status of ' icons ' as in ICONS .... however much they appear to be so before the eyes of the ' intelligentia ' in the matters of social phenomenons.... or just simply because the one happens to have been given the name of the capital of France or the other because her christian name happens to ' sound ' like that of Queen Victoria ...and as they say ....' not everything that shines is gold '.....:):)

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

I don’t see what questions I’ve ignored. What do you think my motivation is??? It appears to me that your motivation is to prove to yourself that your admiration for Kate Moss is not remotely similar to the admiration that the less sophisticated people have for VB – when it clearly is.
The fact that VB & PH parade in front of the paparazzi, while, apparently KM does not (questionable) only demonstrates how the Kate Moss icon is more sophictated. KM hardly avoids attention does she? Her reluctance to be interviewed and her feeble attempts to avoid the paparazzi only aid her more sophisticated icon status.

In reply to Karl Fuler:

My admiration indeed is for beauty because perhaps in the make up of my soul and personality I always seem or tend to unconsciously go beyond superficialities that are of absolute no bearing in how that beauty translates/manifests itself to the viewer, the fact that I do not seem to fit in the already well divided categories/patterns organised by society... makes it hard for some to understand and follow my line of thinking.... And I do not apologise for it or offer it as an explanation or justification...they are just a fact of importance to me alone , and I don't dwell in it...But having said that...fairness will always be at the top of my list ..... and I do not consider fair to call someone 'trash ' simply because according to someone ' moral' standards ' trash' is the way fitted to qualify certain person as in this case. I personally dislike the word used ,trash , simply because...to be honest I have the impression that you do not really know what you are talking about !!!... but then again what I think is of no relevance or of any particular interest...
Fairness I believe means to be open minded, neutral, and less morally judgemental personally when trying to analyze/ understand a phenomenon ( as you put it )...that shows character and adds credibility when trying to put a point across, I always believe ... but it doesn't really mean that I admire someone in the way you put it , because the subject in question as in this case happens to be KM ..... Yes I like beauty and it doesn't necessarily mean physical beauty ! ... I know is very hard to understand it as in this case ....

And no , you are very wrong, again, because I'm not trying to prove anything to myself as you put it ( I already suspected you would say that anyway ...! LOL ! )... I just dislike people adding extra gun powder to a gun because they want to make sure they kill the target and kind of feel ... victorious just for the sake of it...and it doesn't add/ contributes to anything positive in the end anyway.....

I hope someday you'll come across real trash ..... trash that to the eyes of the world... are viewed as ' heroes '..... or people to be admired !!!...the difference is that they are more cunning or simply good at concealing things to avoid to be called... 'trash ' .....

Anyhow it was quite enlightening to read some of your thinking ...I hope one day I shall be able to read your book on the subject of ' Popular Culture In Society Today'... if you are working on such a project...' ...

In reply to Galileo's Universe:

Yes, the topic always comes back to Miss Moss.
I think the London Tube sign is a UK pop icon. And it is in the tube where you can see all that's ins and hot and happening, full of life.
Kate Moss is an icon, no doubt, ask any people she is part of the UK fabric, as the swinging London in the 60's. Biba, Vidal Sassoon haircuts in the 60's. Marianne Faithful. Kate is kind of complexed, since her cocaine scandal, I think she has an additional element of tragedy to her, no matter how rich and famous and fabulous her life seems to the outside, because of the drugs and the bust up and what she went through and her guarded attitude now to the cameras, she is even more inspiring precisely due to the seediness of some of her past.