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Chauvinistic hystery in Russia

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland
In reply to KaWai:

Othello and Iago

I can see now , indeed, the emotional attachment that somehow seems to 'reflect ' certain anger against the west .... although I believe not everything is always black and white , so to speak . The analysis, rightly, seems to always be geared at the very negative side that " Capitalism" has brought to mankind .... if only because GREED always seems to get the upper hand unfortunately . But being emotional always seems to cloud the truth .... whatever that may be . On important of the many important factors about Hong Kong and the , let's call it ' inability' of the British Crown to make things betters for its citizens was the size of the colony in relation to the huge influx of refugees from mainland China who saw HONG KONG as a kind of PARADISE .... yes when being in the desert and having no water ...OASIES seem to appear in the horizon from nowhere ... the illusions of desperation ..... so what to do when such disproportionate situation is a nightmare reality , overpopulation and not enough land to build on ? ... you build up on every inch of land available because of the madness like situation of overpopulation with all the environmental consequences attached that we already know about ! Should we put the blame on the British Crown however much they would had wanted to be able to help those desperate souls fleeing a cruel regime and their atrocious poverty ? The irony is that those desperate 'refugees' or ' illegal immigration' were prepared to live in little cages to call ' home ' as long as they could keep hope of a better future ... yes hope can sometimes be very deceiving !

And as for corruption in the Colony ( not that there wasn't any in the United Kingdom ! ) let's not forget that CORRUPTION seems to be a kind of way of live for certain humans who are prepared to take advantage of people's desperate situations , even when those people happen to be their ' dearest ' fellow country men .... again GREED comes to play its ever eternal part in our ever weak , feeble ' HUMAN ' character ...

You do have hopes for CHINA ... that is a good attitude and I can understand that ... but I , forgive me , am a big SCEPTIC !.... as you mentioned AMERICA wasn't and isn't perfect .... the human ' illness ' of GREED and BETRAY cannot be eradicated .... the IAGOS of this world are always the most ' PROSPEROUS' and the reason why I'm so sceptical of CHINA is because .... combining CAPITALISM with a TOTALITARIAN REGIME ....... POWER is totally concentrated in the hands of the very, very few with no mechanism to make them accountable .... and AMERICA may not be perfect but at least, the very least, we have something to bring them to JUSTICE, whatever that may mean ..... and do you think that they, the Chinese governing elite , would ever want to be subjected to any LAWS that will take their power and their very easy earned wealth ? ... and as you said keeping a tight grip on their subjects is the only way to avoid any trouble ... whatever that entails for them personally ... and censoring the most powerful tool of our age to spread ideas .... any ideas .... is not a move done lightly for no reason ... they must be scared to death when hearing the word "INTERNET' ! Really ironic that with so much military power they should be scared of such a word with eight HARMLESS LETTERS ! .. TRULY AMAZING the power of the word!

I can also understand why you are so positive about CHINA ... but let's be a little more unbiased on the subject because if we are going to talk about environmental disasters then the truth is that China, India, Brasil, etc are the the worst polluters of our planet today because of their monstrous like ongoing 'industrial revolution ' ..... which if we take into account the 'clean' air , the ' clean' waters and the huge OVERPOPULATION .... they are hundreds of years far to late , unfortunately , and the painful reality is that we cannot longer afford the huge costs they will impose on our planet .... unless that is our HUMAN GREED .... slows down and sensitive thinking, policies and the right technology is put in place to improve their standards of living .....

I , like you, too think that it is such a pity that such beautiful architecture from the past had to be destroyed in order to accommodate people in tiny Hong Kong ... but when you compare that to what the Chinese government did to so many beautiful old Chinese landmarks in order to accommodate the OLYMPIC GAMES out of sheer false sense of PRIDE in order to show the world how 'great' and mighty China is, then we are talking about crimes against their very own cultural heritage and people ... how can anyone ever justify that ? ... and in my opinion , of no importance , ' crime' is an understatement ! ... and all because of their HUMAN VANITY ! ... monuments to themselves when there are far urgent PRIORITIES ...

PS. : Isn't that incredible great that here we are ... and yet we have nothing to fear from a government because of speaking our minds openly and expressing our opinions ? .... I think the internet is the best 'discovery ' yet since Christopher Columbus discovered the Americas by luck !

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland

www.softpedia.com/ progScreenshots/Tropic-Para...

" If there were aliens who were supremely developed, watching earth, watching the US going through their industrial development, they would have been appalled by some of the things they saw too. "

Indeed a justified thought ... but let's move it to today's reality .... I dare to think that ALIEN BEIGNS would be perplexed, flabbergasted to see that although we happen to have the most glorious planet ... the only existing paradise with no equal so far found in the galaxies .... we must , indeed, really be totally insane creatures as to be eroding and keep depleting our environment if just because we foolishly think or believe that we own it all as to dispose with it as we wish ! ....

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KaWai
KaWai
United States
In reply to Galileo's Universe:

As far as I know, US is the nation of the biggest pollutant per capita, create the most waste for capita, each household create more waste than any other in the world, due to capitalism, and the particular high maintenance lifestyle-the house with the white fence and the lawn, the washer and dryer(Many apartments in the US don't allow tenants to hang dry clothes outside the windows because it doesn't look good, I find that mentally shallow and crazy, when the sun and wind is free, but tenants are forced to use dryers), the dishwasher; the 2 car garage, the lack of good national public transportation network. I think it's unfair to China, Brazil, to say that they are the pollutants, that they do more harm to the environment, when many of the western factories moved their production into China, it's that "not in my backyard attitude", there were acid rain in Europe 20 years ago. Do I enjoy living the free lifestyle in the US? Definitely, but there are so much hypocrcies in US views too. There are all the highstreets stores in London with cheap clothes that are made in China, India, Vietnam, people are endlessly shopping, that is equally harmful to the environment. Do I feel sadden to see so many old buildings in China torn down, and people not being compensated? Definitely, and I am angry about many things the CCP would do, and the incompetence of many of the officials. Corruption is the biggest disease of human civilization.

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KaWai
KaWai
United States
In reply to KaWai:

May I correct the highest pollutant per capita in the US is due to consumerism, and the particular US lifestyle.

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KaWai
KaWai
United States

ICAC is one of the best contributions the Hong Kong governor in the 70's has ever done, it cleaned up corruption on the large part, and Hong Kong could actually start to thrive and become modernize, because it's the changing of mentality, along with the health care system, the free nine year public education started in the early 70's too, and the housing system to house the refugees. I definitely lived in the best time when Hong Kong was booming, but of course, it was very disturbing to see the lost of many of the country side villages. The huge landfill projects, shrinking of the harbor, in those projects, the citizens of HK had no say, they couldn't vote on any of them.

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland

PIC.> www.daylife.com/ photo/01921EVcnXbTS

Some Food for Thought .....:

_____________________________________________GREEN LIVING
THE WORLD BIGGEST POLLUTION FACTORY .....

Ref,: http://www.greenlivingonline.com/OurWorld/the-worlds-biggest-pollution-factory/

(Aug 7, 2008) On the eve of the Olympics, the whole world is watching China. In the following excerpt from The Coming China Wars, author Peter Navarro outlines China’s complex role in the world and the environmental challenges it faces.

The coal that has powered China's economic growth . . . is also choking its people.
Elizabeth C. Economy
Director for Asia Studies, Council on Foreign Relations
Author, The River Runs Black: The Environmental Challenges to China’s Future

At the root of many of China's air-quality problems is its heavy dependence on relatively high-sulfur, low-quality coal for everything from electricity generation and industrial production to cooking and space heating in the home. China relies on coal for almost 75 percent of its energy needs. In fact, each year, China consumes more coal than Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States combined.

The scale and scope of China's coal power plant construction program is almost beyond one's imagination. Consider that every single week, China adds one new large coal power plant to its energy base. Every single year, China builds enough new coal plants to light up the entire British Isles. In any given year, the amount of coal-fired capacity that China is building amounts to more than double that of the entire electricity-generating capacity of the state of California-more than 100 gigawatts. That China's coal appetites are voracious is aptly captured in this passage from the Wall Street Journal:

"On a recent hazy morning in eastern China, the Wuhu Shaoda power company revved up its production of electricity, burning a ton and a half of coal per minute to satisfy more than half the demand of Wuhu, an industrial city of two million people. "

It's not just the quantity of coal used by China that matters. The large amount of coal in China's "energy mix" is quite different from virtually all the other major economies of the world, which depend much more on oil. China's heavy coal dependence, coupled with a woeful lack of pollution-control technologies, make China's air-quality problem a very different one from that of developed countries, such as the United States and Germany, in at least three ways:

First, unlike in the United States, Germany, or Japan where sophisticated pollution-control technologies are deployed, much of what Chinese power plants and factories spew in the air is not just sulfur dioxide but also a high percentage of fine particulate matter. This is a critical observation because particulate matter is the most damaging form of airborne pollutants.

Second, small cities in China are no better off than large cities in terms of ambient air quality. This is because small cities are as likely as large cities to depend on coal in both their residential and commercial sectors. That means that China's pollution woes are spread over the entire country in cities small and large rather than concentrated in a few large industrial hubs.

Third, unlike the developed world where the automobile is the single largest source of air pollution, China's current problem is primarily a "stationary source" one. These stationary sources range from large coal-fired power plants in huge factory towns to small coal-fired stoves and heaters in peasant homes.

The nightmare here is that even if China is able to get better pollution controls on its power plants, and even if it is able to convert some of its population to natural gas cooking, China's air basins are still likely to be overwhelmed in the next several decades by an explosion in the number of new vehicles on Chinese roads. Just consider this astonishing statistic reported by Elizabeth C. Economy: China is now adding 15,000 new cars a day to its roads, and it expects to have more cars than the United States -- as many as 130 million -- as early as 2040. In addition, Elizabeth C. Economy also reports the following:

First, China is expected to construct fully half of all the buildings in the world over the next 25 years. Beyond sheer quantity, the nightmare here is that these buildings will be electricity sinkholes because Chinese buildings are notoriously energy inefficient. This will only further exacerbate China's coal dependence and collaterally gargantuan pollution emissions.

Second, China plans to move almost a half a billion peasants off the farm into factories and cities over the next several decades. As a rule, urbanites introduced to the magic of refrigerators, TVs, and toasters use more than three times the amount of energy as their rural counterparts.

On top of all this, Chinese manufacturers are extremely energy inefficient. To produce an equivalent amount of goods, they use six times more resources than the United States, seven times more resources than Japan, and, most embarrassingly, three times more resources than India, to which China is most frequently compared. If ever there were a blueprint for a global pollution factory, China would be the model.

The above is an excerpt from the book The Coming China Wars by Peter Navarro.

Peter Navarro a business professor at the University of California-Irvine. A gifted speaker, Navarro is a regular CNBC contributors and appears frequently on Bloomberg TV, CNN, and NPR, as well as on all three major network news shows. He has testified before Congress and the U.S.-China Commission and his work has appeared in publications ranging from Business Week, the L.A. Times, and New York Times to the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, and Harvard Business Review.

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KaWai
KaWai
United States
In reply to Galileo's Universe:

I think in China there's not sufficient technology from the private sectors to produce clean coal, it's all money driven at this point, the fastest, the large quantity using the least costly. That's where I think the western private sectors should offer their technology, and work with govt to help solve this problem, offer some incentive to encourage them. There's no clean coal technology infrastructure set up in most mining towns in China.
If western products are mostly manufactured in China, western companies should bare no responsibilities to the fact that Chinese manufacturers use more resources than the west to produce? This is basically a global factory, global production assembly line now, where the west produce the design, and then China manufacture the products, to point the finger to only China doesn't exactly hold up. Since the western companies and consumers are enjoying the fruits of the labors. If a company wants to be really responsible, it's a lot of work, they need to know exactly where the sources are from in China, how were they produced, with what components, were the factories up to labor rights standards, the quality of the products, testing the products(the west needs to have their labs set up in China to test the products before they are allow to ship to the west-the episode of the toys were partly the fault of US companies, because they didn't follow through with quality control). The west wants cheaply made goods, if they want to put the real pressure to Chinese factories, the affective way could be to pull their production out of China, move to Japan, or move back home to England, back to the uS, to make the point to Chinese gov't that the west would pay more for production, they value what they preach over cheaply produce goods. But of course the western companies wouldn't do that, it's too costly. I believe consumers would pay more knowing it's safe, it's produced in a way not destructive to the environment, and ethical. I think if companies market that, that it's US made, have met all the required standards, consumers would buy. And that's the most affective message to give to Chinese gov't and private sectors.

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KaWai
KaWai
United States

There is a US brand, name I can't think of now, their marketing tool is the fact that entire production is US based, they have met all the ethical standards. It's a very popular brand, started in LA, still based in LA.

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KaWai
KaWai
United States

If the west value so much of ethical issues and the environment, the western manufactures have to put the pressure onto Chinese factories, and sourcing companies, to make sure every step of the production is ethical, if not, pressure to pull the production out of there. Politicians and environmentalists points are not as affective and have as much direct results as western merchants and manufacturers putting pressure on China. Consumers could demand manufactures to post their oversea's sourcing and manufacturing's information on their companies' websites. This could be a very affective way to oversee ethical and environmental practice by factories and manufactures, instead of letting politicians do that, give the power back to the people, inform them and allow them to participate. If consumers demand to know and manufactures demand, bet you factories in China would change quickly in order to keep the business.

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland

PIC>> i-guydesignersunglasses.blogspot.com/ 2007_07_

" This is basically a global factory, global production assembly line now, where the west produce the design, and then China manufacture the products, to point the finger to only China doesn't exactly hold up. Since the western companies and consumers are enjoying the fruits of the labors. "

Indeed but how do you think that the WEST can or should ' FORCE ' China to become responsible ? ... by simply stopping to use Chinese enticements and their offerings of making 'easy 'money at the cost of their Chinese citizens' health, their own environment and with such degrading working conditions ... by just simply to refuse such easy 'bounty ' ? ... or shouldn't the Chinese citizens without having to use VIOLENCE try to push such urgent agendas forward ? .... of course I'm thinking that if a 'single' figure like the great Mahatma Gandhi managed to 'defeat' the largest Empire ever known in modern history to achieve his goal ... why is it that such exorbitant sheer number of people cannot manage to 'move' things in the right direction ? ... of course I'm being rhetorical about it ! ... because we perfectly know that FEAR, INTIMIDATION, TORTURE, etc or any means available are used to silence their people's voice ... and let's not mention the intimidation that goes on at the "DIPLOMATIC' level when such issues are raised in the international forums ... and yet they PERFECTLY know that they are CHOKING TO DEATH, literally , their own people, making their children horribly SICK and destroying their OWN FUTURE and the health of their next generation ... so why do you really think that pointing the finger at China doesn't add up ? when they are ruining what belongs to them and no one can change that in reality but THEMSELVES and if they really care about their own environment and a little less about ' their MONEY should they not invest in THEIR OWN future by helping to applying the right policies ... which in the end will benefit all of them ... Intelligence is what makes us different from the ANIMAL KINGDOM ... let's hope it still works like that and we mankind haven't totally horribly mutated into something else !

And I don't think that they will be short of candidates to be found around the world who doesn't want to take advantage of such 'RICHES & DELIGHTS ' with the total compliment of the Chinese Government !

What we in the WEST can, should or may do ( read ' WE ' as in CONSUMERS ) is to BOYCOTT any CHINESE PRODUCTS in order to make at the very least an statement !...... but that is of course if we are indeed sincere about caring for the world environment, the unfortunate children that are paying such a high price or our Chinese fellow humans for that matter !

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