Wise words, and a good point. I really wanted some views about the state of London like yours Martin. Maybe to see if their is any passion left here, someone to stand up for the place. All I got was a student telling me I'm racist for the wellington boot comment about St. Martins students. The point I was trying to make is that in Paris fashion photography is still considered an artform, here it is considered a joke (I blame that on a certain number of wank magazines, and on st. martins students who live in shoreditch). And that comment isn't racist. It would be if I said Japanese students who don't speak english with wellington boots on their head and disposable cameras...

Complaints to the usual address...

The thing is Ben, you are blaming a specific group of people (St Martins) for your lack of creativity/inspiration/recognition. If magazines -masturbatory or otherwise - prefer the work of this particular group rather than yours it might be more profitable for you to consider what it is about their work that these mags find attractive.

I don't see how scapegoating people (St Martins) rather than taking responsibility for oneself can ever be helpful. The point I was trying to make was that, in another context e.g if a racial type were to be substituted your remark could be construed as racist or inflammatory. It is not that great a step from blaming a group of artists to blaming a racial/national/religious type. How do you think the nazis recruited people? The humbling of the intellectuals and artists during the Cultural Revolution in China?

As long as anyone thinks that it is someone else's fault that they are not getting the buzz, respect, work etc that they are entitled to, I doubt that positive change will occur for them.

If the blame game should result in a big commission or write up for you, please let me know and I will be the first to congratulate, and to emulate you.

Perhaps one of the differences between the St Martins group and others such as yourself is that we don't set up another group to be scapegoats. Not that I am aware of anyway.

By the way, it has been a while since I was a student but hey never let inconvenient fact get in the way of expedient fiction!

Good grief Charlie Brown, they are really sticking it to you now. One mention of Wellington boots and now you are the new Hitler - talk about inflammatory!
Paris definitely inspires me photographically - it is next on my list of cities to try living and working in - I always feel like I'm in a black&white still when I am in Paris. Some Parisians might knock that as being crap or overly sentimental but hey - at least they won't call me Hitler for saying it.
PS Charlie Brown - advice - I wouldn't recommend going through Shoreditch anymore (I wouldn't actually have recommended going through Shoreditch anyway).

Hi martinb, I think that so far it's only because everybody secretly knows benmorris is... Charlie Brown! that they've been so leniant with him.

Hi Charlie, heeeeeere's Lucy!

benmorris lives in London
says, of London, "All the good artists have moved out long ago...."
= ?

This site is paid for and run by people who are in London. This site is extraordinarily welcoming and tolerant of allcomers, whether they're from St Martin's or not. The whole St Martin's/Shoreditch thing is irrelevant for those people tuning in from outside the UK, and even for those of us here - who gives a shit!? The fact that this whole debate is seemingly centred around so few square miles of a very, very large city is anal in the extreme, if you'll all excuse my French. Anyway, chances are when people are getting excited/irritated about a place the real action is elsewhere. And?

And! by his own admission Charlie boy isn't where it's happening so what does he know? But that doesn't necessarily mean that London isn't happening. London is a huge/scary/exciting/irritating/outrageous/etc/etc/place, just like Paris NY, Tokyo... London is just a big pond full of small fish. OOOoooh...

Snoopy dance moment!

Paris is gorgeous. Paris is... perfect. When, like William Klein, I'm rich and famous enough for the French to tolerate me living there again I will, sans hesitations. Malgre mes chagrins, malgre tout.

But then, maybe I haven't travelled enough yet. Maybe there's somewhere better.

Like London.

The comment about St. Martins students with wellington boots on their heads was a generalisation of the groups of pricks that frequent the streets from Old Street to Dalston, Brick Lane and Liverpool Street. The people who are 'fashion photographers', though they probably work in a clothes shop. The point I was making was about bonafide artists and the frustration when faced with plebs like this.

Please for christs sake get over the fact I was taking the piss out of St. Martins students, you do it to yourselves.

I agree with the romantic vision of Paris and that great point that you feel like you are in black and white whilst being there - thanks to the images of fantastic photographers such as beaton, newton, penn etc. That is one reason I love working there, again my original point.

I don't agree with not being where it's happenning. I live in Clerkenwell which is probably the best place in London to live for a working photographer, and luckily without many 'welly heads' and bars named after old bag shops.

Did anyone ever see Nathan Barley on that note? I was kind of trying to make a literal point on those terms if you see what I mean.

Seems it was lost on Jackie (get over it) and Flux, who should really get either a job or a life as your postings on this forum are embarrassingly regular.

When it comes to fashion and self expression London in the sixties seventies and eighties was at the edge and pushing the boundaries for the rest of the world.
At the moment I would agree in media anyway it is going through a creative doldrums.
What is happening in magazines is not running true to what is going on the streets in culture and lifestyle, Living in Plymouth I have seen a change where self expression is taking of (this is possibly due to a great influx of international astudents in every part of education from the arts to medicin.)
publicly like never before, I am not sure about the rest of the country.
Boys are hugging boys in public as well as there girlfrends. and all seem to be wearing gothic black clothes, not quite individuals but groups of clones.
there needs to be individuals who are prepared to re set the style and push ther own self expression, like in the past in order to make music, the arts more exiting again.
I have come across rare individuals like this in Plymouth.
I am wondering how much of this is being held back by an over enthusiastic ossesive attitued by the media and authorities to almost everything in modern creativity.
Expessivly visualy this period of new technology along with analog image making self expression and the arts could go a lot further, and merge as one.
Which Capital at the moment would you say is at the edge of fashion and the arts across the world and is ther anyone in the creative fielde interested in visiting the forum with there views

lets all move to plymouth;thats what we need to do!we can then use our dispossible cameras and wellington boots,boys can hug boys and girls can hug girls,as we sail on sebastians yacht...and shout plymouth HO!

...and not be accused of being racist to wellingtons.