After having read a viewer's strong, very angry and totally disapproving opinion ( right or wrong ) on the subject of WOMEN IN THE CREATIVE REALM and I quote ' ... Oh, the tragedy! Oh the campery! Oh, the drugs! Oh, the debauchery! It is so depressing...... It's a self-fulfilling prophesy and you -yes you- are all to blame... '
I suddenly realised ...indeed why is it ?...what makes them to follow such a path (willingly or unwillingly ) ... in my personal view of things there is one red line along the spectrum of female icons that seems to unite them all in the matters of the' self-fulfilling prophecy' .... arguably...LOVE !
And then it was the viewer's suggestion about ...and I quote ' ...why there is no comparable discussion on this forum of men of similar stature and give yourselves a fucking shake'...and yes.. WHY ISN'T THERE ?....but then again , arguably, the red line doesn't seem to be LOVE uniting the male icons ( whether a right or wrong observation) ....Why is it that somehow women icons always seem to be the ' victims ' at the mercy of a male 'villain ' ...and yet the women we are alluding to cannot/will not seem to free themselves and send everyone to do their own dishes and get away from the whole s**** at all ....Is it a kind of latent sadomasochism where suffering seems to become a joy and to certain extent, in an idiotic way, more of a source of their 'strength' and rather an unnecessary useless pain and an overtly idolized luxury in the matters of misery ? Or are they just simply to good as a human being for their own personal and spiritual good ? ...
I know...I can hear it !..... ' here we go again ' !!! ...but sorry after having read the viewer's statements on her very personal perceptions about the discussion I cannot stop asking myself how truthful, fair and well researched are her statements ?...and I quote ...'... for God's sake- it's more the vampyric gawping over another 'Disaster Woman' that's distasteful. Hackneyed. And unworthy of this Forum. Or perhaps, sadly, entirely worthy. ' .
VAMPIRIC ?....perhaps yes as far as the ' red line ' is concerned in the matters of the hart
GAWPING ? Perhaps if the subject in question openly seems to enjoy ' suffering' ( very speculative of course ! )
DISTASTEFUL ? ... Perhaps/ probably ...but the measure of taste seems to change according to each individual's personal taste even for the complainant self !!! ...
And no I do not agree with .... , just because I personally might not like something, or is not up to my taste ... then my only way to quickly deal with it is to attempt to silence it , to ban it altogether or to try to bully whoever comes in my way !!!... that in my opinion is a very easy , a .... far to easy way out and not democratic at all in a forum !...arguments well constructed... clear thinking ....intelligent statements and the contribution of contra arguments are in my opinion a more effective way to reasoning .....and in this particular case I'm also curious about ....why that element of ' self-fulfilling prophecy' seems to occur.....over and over again in female icons of the inspiring kind ?..... .and/or are WOMEN ICONS as a matter of fact less strong of a woman than their 'ordinary' counterparts ? ... And are MALE ICONS rather lacklustre, dry and totally uninspiring when it comes to the matters of ... the ' self - fulfilling prophecy ' or is it true that the elements ..I quote ... ' women-hating, controlling, undermining shite......' are the motivation behind such discussion ?....
No it is not a nice subject indeed, but with the new project in the making of Political Fashion Films..... Fashion direction, actual taste in general , women's libs seem to continue to be interlocked and very relevant even today when women and men are supposed to be, or considered equals and free to chose ...at least in an ideal and near to perfect .....world !!!....
If you look at what you originally said, it comes off as 'Billie Holiday is more worthy then Amy Winehouse because her suffering was more genuine' which is a dubious thing to say for about five different reasons.
Cue your blustered and meandering 1000-word response...
No I didn't say THAT... YOU are saying THAT !.... !... nice try ... ! LOL!
It is not ' their' suffering I'm talking about in the context you yourself wish, want to , try or desire to put it in order to prove something that has not been said so to prove to yourself that you are right in what you are trying to speculate..... :):):)
What I'm talking about , if you care to ask in case you find it extremely hard and very difficult to understand.... and I can imagine why !..... it' s ' credibility ' what I'm talking about in the sense ... of ' EXPERIENCE ' as far as their lives are concerned, and all very well documented in Billie Holiday ' case, that is if we are going to believe her biography of course , have you read it already ? I do hope so because then you will surely know what I'm talking or lets put it.. trying to talk about !.... and naturally I'm basing my opinion on that !... and there is absolutely no need to worry or to lose any valuable sleep over 1000 words !... It's a free world we live in ... don't you think so ? ... and people use their time and space as they want and chose to ... exactly the way you are allowed to , and you yourself chose to use it the way you want it ... and no one is bothered about that, I hope ! .... just feel free to express your very important and valuable opinion on the subject as you yourself see it fit, but try as much as possible to stick to facts if you can and not just in wishful thinking just for its own sake when trying to prove a point ! .... LOL !!!
In case there is something you can't or don't understand in these ( again!) '1000' words you are sincerely very welcome to ask !...:):):)
You know, if three different people read what you said and came to the same conclusion, maybe it's YOU that needs to learn how to express your ideas more clearly.
Your writing seems to be just stating the obvious in the most pretentious way possible. No, not even pretentious, 'pseudo-pretentious'.
Congratulations, you've inspired a new word.
That again is your very personal opinion and I respect that.... I wonder thought in any case if you really know what the word pretentious really means in the context you are attempting to place it ? ..... as I see it you are absolutely free to ignore whatever anyone may write that is not up to your high and personal standards .... that is the beauty of being able to choose..... i hope so anyway ! :):)
By the way I forgot to thank you for your very generous and well meant ' congratulatios' for having inspired you to learn a new word .. I'm glad ...LOL!
In any case I do admire your great sense of finesse and clarity when it comes to expressing your personal opinions by attaching your extra personal 'judgement' on anyone without you really knowing anything about anyone personally !...
Anyhow, as the saying goes, here we are!... you find me 'pretentious' and I find you to be very 'intelligent and humble' ... what a great combination! ...
I hope people will never make the mistake of finding you incredible arrogant ... just because you are so well instructed in the matters of how to 'teach' people about how ' to learn how to express ideas more clearly ' , because you personally care and are able to inspire them..... 'HUMBLENESS ' , indeed , must surely be your personal motto guiding you in everyday life .......
And just for the good humour and sport ( if that's is ok with your permission of course :):))..... perhaps we should all be aware, very aware, that Big Brother Landon is watching us ! ....:):):
I absolutely agree the origional posting reads to me as if the writer is suggesting that one woman's art is more valid because she got some good beatings from her husband.
From the response below , i see that this was not the intention, but it was clearly the effect.
.... sorry to say so but I find it rather obscure and tendentious... your suggestion about ...and I quote ...' clearly the effect ' , I dare to assume that it is very obvious to me that you are basing that on your own personal believes and pre-conceived associations by equating/ linking both of your statements , and I quote ... "some good beatings from her husband '... with the word ' validity ' of a.... ' woman's art '....
Nowhere in the post is there anything written about ...'SOME GOOD BEATINGS '... I suppose , and very unfortunate for that matter that it is bound to be the obvious cliche that comes to people's mind in order to be able to link the word ...'sufferings ' .... with the act of ' husband's beating' as you tangibly illustrate it in your statement ... but to add the word ' good '... that is a kind of mockery not worth mentioning ... simply because there is nothing GOOD ! about it
Deception, betrayal, dissappointments seem more likely ... to me personally to be the reasons of their sufferings, and their innerly sadness as the by product of their in generally assumed, and openly publicised stormy private lives vociferetd by the press
If you too had care to ask what do I mean , in the case of being of any ineterest to you ... about what I mean by a ' villain ' ....perhaps it may had helped you to try harder and see beyond the... cliches... linking ' suffering' to the whole ' beating drama '( if that happens to be the case ).... to the word 'suffering' ... and 'suffering' should not as a matter of fact be linked exclusively to the actual act of ' physical beatings' ! .. and there is absolutely nothing about 'beatings' that deserves to be linked to the validity of a ' woma's art' ... if anythig in my opinion of no importance...beatings have more to do with irrationality and stupidity ... and, unarguably , a definitely aggressive and a totally denigrating act that has absolutely no place in the realm of inspiring creativity to be joyous about... but if anything, more to do with humiliation as in a man 'feeling more powerful and controlling ' towards the victim ' ... and I find it preposterous and insulting to suggest that beatings can/may or will brig about any validity in anyone's art !!! ... be it a woman or be it a man... ....that is my very clear opinion on the matter ...
Please think harder when trying to interpret something that by no fault of your own you are not able to understand for whatever reason ... and asking is a lot more positive when in doubt !.. .than to speculate when as matter of fact is not always the wisest venue to take..... and in any case thanks kindly for your thoughts .... it always helps to put things in the true perspective and adds surely in a positive way to the art of improving our thinking.......:):):)
... it suddenly occurred to me , giving the content of my writing ... or better said the intention of my writing...that it has no other purpose than but to explore how true things are, might be, or aren't about what is being said or assumed regarding the subject in question ' suffering and women in the creative realm '.... all with the very good intention to understand such ' phenomenon' ... purely out of goodwill, there is no evil intention behind that I can assure you all :):):)... and absolute no offence ever intended to women because I have no personal desire, wish or a kick for that matter to offend women or any particular woman if that were to be the case .... I hope that is clear ! .
Anyway to finish my 1000 words :):):.....LOL! ... as I was saying .. . it occurred to me how easy is for someone to look rather to eagerly for any detail or a possible way to interpret something in the wrong context ... perhaps out of their own narrow mind or clumsiness, ( I hope NOT ! ) or to clever for their own good ,because as a matter of fact there has been far a lot more said to just simply come to a rather unconstructive conclusion/interpretation ...as I personally see it .... then I must say GOOD GOD !...if that person doing his/her ' interpretation ' by any chance happened to be a journalist in real life !.... that indeed must be really scary ! .... and far even more frightening then when I think of the case of the lady teacher in Sudan who by giving a name to a Teddy Bear was nearly condemned to endure a sadomasochistic punishment for nothing more and nothing less than ...having a simply and perfectly innocently very good intentions towards the children of fellow human beings in a hate ridden region of our planet !......
MEGAWATT perhaps you may, if you so wish, comment on that and if you yourself don't think that to be a true evil act ? ... after all physical punishment on women in that part of the world seems to be pretty OK ! and as a matter of fact ........ very strongly recommended .... and even more than that .... It seems to be the very right of the husband according to a very enlightening, eloquent, wise, and divine literature ..... yes I would be interested to know your opinion... beacause perhaps it is not the intent..... but clearly the message and the utterly devastating effect !!!
Of course there had been men who struggled through fame and led themselves to self destruction-Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain,River Phoenix, and a few more whose names I can't think of now. I think usually these people had to go through growing pains of the 20's plus dealing with sudden fame, they just couldn't handle it. This goes for both sexes in the entertainment industry.
