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Reality;film vs fashion photography

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Chris Summerfield
Chris Summerfield
United Kingdom
In reply to Galileo's Universe:

I like the portrait mask in your profile is it your own work Galileo.?

Above statement
I guess thats one area where Terry Richarson would be classed as not manipulating the image, as from what I have seen of his work comes it comes across as being raw and real. I prefer a more natural and poetic feel to my work and dont in general manipulate the image to much,but look for effects textures and mixed mediums before going in to digital from analogue. I should think that it is easy to get carried away with digital for the sake of it. I have expertimented with montages through photo shop and liked the effect but as you see in my Christmas card here it is not hard to do, but I also prefer manipulation to be spontaniouse or a one of. At Colleges they teach you to record everything so tnat you can use it as a refrence as to how you got to a certain point in getting the effect you want, so that you can do the same in future if you need to.

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland
In reply to Chris Summerfield:

Hi there.....! yes it is my work....thank you for asking.....

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pre-lait
pre-lait
United States

Hi, Nick, I'd like to think that the difference is in the "touch." The kinesthetic power of a magazine is surprising. Engaging the object physically and then looking at it, is missing in the movies. This could be a factor in the desire for more truthful representation by the touch/looker.
I would also include the sound that movie film offers. That seems to give motion pictures the upper hand.

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland

When film started the power to move the masses was proven but when sound was added then magnetic induction of a pic that had been so succesful untill then lost forever to film...........the classic example ......Great Garbo....and Garbo was " fashion" then..........

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Chris Summerfield
Chris Summerfield
United Kingdom
In reply to Galileo's Universe:

In early film making the lighting and framing compasitions where taken from the ideas of early glamour photographers, this created a lot of mood in image making that is lost today through over lighting shots in a lot of cases

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Galileo's Universe
Galileo's Universe
Greenland
In reply to Chris Summerfield:

Yes 'glamour'..that has always been the key to fashion photography....although it has lost the meaning in time...along the way....and very often falsely interpreted....but no matter how much you debate about it, the fact is that people wants to see beauty.....not 'ugliness'......and it is a false and unrealistic utopia to think that " everybody is beautiful'....just to be politically correct or to try to liberate us from a perception so deeply embedded in our subconscious, something going back as far as mankind can remember and always interpreted accordingly by 'primitive' cultures ........

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vandelay
vandelay
United Kingdom

in a word: narrative

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I was going to ask you if you could put this question in context, but then today I found your response to Silvergem in the 'Don't Bother to Knock' project comments:

"Only half of the"mind Fuck" was fantasy the answers to the 23 F words were real , always in one take ,unscripted and straight from her heart.The idea was to sink Emma Forrests' storyline into the video diary. The result was that reality and fantasy became very blurred even for Asia and I.*
I wanted people to question the material they were watching as I find it interesting how people will suspend belief when they watch movies but have alot more difficulty doing so when looking at Fashion imagery.

*and still is."

Which is what prompted this thread? I don't think everyone in the audience for 'Don't Bother to Knock' was necessarily wholly convinced that they were being presented with a real video diary, so not everybody was entirely able to suspend disbelief in the way you suggest. In fact, as the project unfurled it became quite clear that it wasn't 'real'. There are filmmakers, like Ken Loach for example (I think!), who work in a similar fashion - preparation for a feature involving a lot of work because scenes are largely unscripted, require improvisation. The essential difference between things like this and 'Don't Bother to Knock' being that the end result is based around a convincing core of truth, a probably reality, but it's still a work of fiction - and clearly presented to its public as such.

You yourself use the word 'deceived' in your question, and isn't this partly the answer? Who likes to be truely deceived? Actually, there is one instance I can think of, off the top of my head, where people expect to be deceived and would be annoyed if they weren't, and this is when watching magicians, but even then the success of this process, and the enjoyment you glean from it (if you like that sort of thing), is knowing you're being deceived but not being able to see or work out how. To rejoin your example, apart from the fact that the audience knows in advance that it's not watching anything factual, nobody seeing 'Matrix' is honestly deceived into thinking that in real life anyone could halt bullets mid-trajectory. And this is partly because the place where Keanu Reeves is capable if this feat is in The Matrix, but also at the same time he's doing that his character's body is lying in a space ship thingy on a funky couch with a big spike plugged into the back of his head, of course. That's the story!

Anyway, could the problem with blurring fantasy and reality, in certain contexts, be that it's dangerously close to mythomania? Authors of any illustrative or fictionally based work - in film, theatre, dance, literature etc - tacitly invite their audiences to meet them half way by suspending disbelief, so could the rule of thumb be that people are only happy to suspend disbelief (for their own pleasure, entertainment, edification) if they are aware in advance that they are going to be hoodwinked?

This doesn't address the part of your question concerning the difference between film and fashion photography (I thought the kind of thing you describe was mainly a problem in photojournalism, as in the recent case of the Reuters photographer suspended for souping up his pix of conflict in Iraq, and - much earlier - the still controversial Robert Capa photo of the Spanish Civil War soldier, for example). But then I wasn't aware of there being any criticism specifically levelled at fashion photography where manipulation of imagery is concerned so I'd still like to ask you for a concrete example? Thanks.

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I was going to ask you if you could put this question in context, but then today I found your response to Silvergem in the 'Don't Bother to Knock' project comments:

"Only half of the"mind Fuck" was fantasy the answers to the 23 F words were real , always in one take ,unscripted and straight from her heart.The idea was to sink Emma Forrests' storyline into the video diary. The result was that reality and fantasy became very blurred even for Asia and I.*
I wanted people to question the material they were watching as I find it interesting how people will suspend belief when they watch movies but have alot more difficulty doing so when looking at Fashion imagery.

*and still is."

Which is what prompted this thread? I don't think everyone in the audience for 'Don't Bother to Knock' was necessarily wholly convinced that they were being presented with a real video diary, so not everybody was entirely able to suspend disbelief in the way you suggest. In fact, as the project unfurled it became quite clear that it wasn't 'real'. There are filmmakers, like Ken Loach for example, who work in a similar fashion - preparation for a feature involving a lot of work because scenes are largely unscripted, require improvisation. The essential difference between things like this and 'Don't Bother to Knock' being that the end result is based around a convincing core of truth, a probably reality, but it's still a work of fiction - and clearly presented to its public as such.

You yourself use the word 'deceived' in your question, and isn't this partly the answer? Who likes to be truely deceived? Actually, there is one instance I can think of, off the top of my head, where people expect to be deceived and would be annoyed if they weren't, and this is when watching magicians, but even then the success of this process, and the enjoyment you glean from it (if you like that sort of thing), is knowing you're being deceived but not being able to see or work out how. To rejoin your example, apart from the fact that the audience knows in advance that it's not watching anything factual, nobody seeing 'Matrix' is honestly deceived into thinking that in real life anyone could halt bullets mid-trajectory. And this is partly because the place where Keanu Reeves is capable if this feat is in The Matrix, but also at the same time he's doing that his character's body is lying in a space ship thingy on a funky couch with a big spike plugged into the back of his head, of course. That's the story!

Anyway, could the problem with blurring fantasy and reality, in certain contexts, be that it's dangerously close to mythomania? Authors of any illustrative or fictionally based work - in film, theatre, dance, literature etc - tacitly invite their audiences to meet them half way by suspending disbelief, so could the rule of thumb be that people are only happy to suspend disbelief (for their own pleasure, entertainment, edification) if they are aware in advance that they are going to be hoodwinked?

This doesn't address the part of your question concerning the difference between film and fashion photography (I thought the kind of thing you describe was mainly a problem in photojournalism, as in the recent case of the Reuters photographer suspended for souping up his pix of conflict in Iraq, and - much earlier - the still controversial Robert Capa photo of the Spanish Civil War soldier, for example). But then I wasn't aware of there being any criticism specifically levelled at fashion photography where manipulation of imagery is concerned so I'd still like to ask you for a concrete example? Thanks.

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nick knight
nick knight
United Kingdom
In reply to f:lux:

Dear f:lux,
I guess the point I was trying to make is, as touched upon by Shaw ,to do with the current and ongoing debate into wether or not fashion photography is in some way responsible for eating disorders in young women and men.Could it be argued that if there was a general awareness that fashion imagery is no more real than fantasies like (wish I had chosen a better example in reterospect!) The Matrix,then they are much less harmful? That is indeed if we really believe they are.

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Showing messages 11–20 of 31

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